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March 19, 2008

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custi, Jamie la. I think this achhhademic is a bit of a beaut, frankly, though some of his points are sound. The long OO in "look" was never universal to Scouseland - I have a link on CT to a radio file of Billy Butler taking the piss out of a phone-in contestant who used it. And the catarrh consonant is simply a Welsh "ch". On the other hand, at my uncle's funeral in December, I definitely noticed that St Helens (which was absolutely Lancashire twenty years ago and still had residual bitterness toward the Royal Mail for amalgamating them into the Merseyside postal district) had got a lot more Scouse. You're right about the economics though - I can think of more than a dozen financial Scousers (they often mistake me for a brother due to my upbringing in Llandudno), which is a lot more than any other non-Scottish, non-Southern city.

I'm a devotee of the long oo myself: it's the classic identifier of Potteries dialect and pretty much the only thing left I have of it. But then we had a lot of Welsh immigrants too. I used to get mistaken for a Scouser quite a lot, which is especially irritating when you're living in London and Southerners are doing it, and it was always becuase I didn't pronounce book to ryhme with duck (owrate duck?). Maybe the catarrh consonant is generally Celtic: one of those areas where P and Q speakers didn't diverge.

Up here the long oo is one of the indicators that you hail from the backwoods of Chorley rather than the bright lights of Preston or Blackburn. Smaller Lancs towns in general seem to have some very pronounced accents - you should hear how they talk in Horwich - but Chorley is out on its own.

Shouldn't it be chickhhhen, not chhhhicken? I'm not convinced that is a Welsh 'ch', either - the way I learned it, Welsh 'ch' is formed in the middle of the mouth, closer to the German 'ch' in 'ich' than the one in 'ach'. (Admittedly, I learned the language in South Wales.)

But I doubt the long oo was the crucial factor for you. Anyone from North of Birmingham and South of Newcastle is liable to get mistaken from a Scouser down South - Brummie, Scouser, Geordie, that's pretty much all they can hear. I used to know a Stretford bloke who taught in a school in London; he got the Harry Enfield Terry-and-Barry routine from the kids all the time. Sometimes corporal punishment doesn't seem like such a bad idea.

What's this 'la' business, anyway? I've lived up here 25 years, I've been to Liverpool plenty of times, I used to watch Brookside regularly, and I've never heard anyone say 'la'.

The only people I've heard say "la" are Singaporean.

Oh - words beginning with ch. Nope, don't know what he's talking about.

Did you come across a linguist's term for the 'warrior' effect, where a T weakens to a D and then to a flapped R (as in "Warrior wanna make those eyes at me for...")?

Phil's right about the "ch" replacing a hard c. (god, the thought of all those scousers hanging round talking about "fricatives"), but it's a North Welsh ch for definite - I'd pronounce the "bach" in "sospan bach" as a scouser would pronounce "back".

No, I've heard "la" a fair bit (although it is a bit dated I think, presumably roughly as past tense as The La's). If you're local you probably just hear it as "lad" but that final consonant does disappear a bit and the short a is stretched.

The one that always did for me was "come 'ed". I realised it was "come ahead" about last week.

[Did you come across a linguist's term for the 'warrior' effect, where a T weakens to a D and then to a flapped R (as in "Warrior wanna make those eyes at me for...")? ]

I think that the research into this important subject was carried out by Darrell Doo.

"But I doubt the long oo was the crucial factor for you"

i think it was. People used to shout "look at the cookery book" at me in the strets of Walthamstow.

That's what you call mean streets.

I tend to think that Celtic, Barcelona, Newcastle and Liverpool should play an annual tournament to determine which set of fans are the most fond of themselves.

An aspect of the dialect missing from this article is 'scally-scouse'. Speakers of this tongue are often thought of outside the city as typical scousers and are distinguished by their Lacoste tracksuits, pitbulls, quadbikes and gormless features.

Scally: ahladnoladyeahlad

The la's that are mentioned on here are completely out of date, nobody in Liverpool says "La" any more, they say "Lad" instead, "La", or "Lar" was left in the 1990's.
People in Skelmersdale still say "Laaarr", and some people around Scarisbrick/Southport, that take some lancashire inffluence say "La".
The pronounciation of the "oo" varies aswell, saying "Look" like "lewk" or "Looook" has slowly been dissapearing with the old scouse dialect.
I would say that the geographical circle that encompasses scouse has well exceeded the city's boundaries, and i would suggest that its outer limits are Formby, Ormskirk, Skelmersdale, Kirkby, Prescot, through to Runcorn, and over the water, anything north of Ellesmere Port, inclusive.

warrior tawchhhhhhhin about frichhhhatives fawww?

Yiz dunno wa yizar torkin about, do yiz?

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