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September 29, 2009

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vavatch

I am looking forward to the English Defense League coming to Glasgow and protesting at Central Mosque.

They will be teaming up with the "Scottish Defense League" which I haven't even heard of - interestingly the BBC and hootsman seemed to frame it as purely the EDL visiting glasgow which doesn't make sense (why would the EDL imagine huge support on the streets of glasgow? the BDL maybe..).

Anyway clairwill has the best idea for combatting these rampant loonies.

Fellow Traveller

Special Branch infiltrated the NF at a high level back during the 70s. The BBC ran a documentary about it around 7 years ago. It wouldn't surprise me if Mossad had assets on the ground as well. They've got a strong interest in monitoring anti-Semitic political groups particularly those based in allied states. Mossad no doubt also attempted infiltration of far left organizations during the 70s given the cooperation between Germany's Red Army Faction and the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (PFLP) and the Revolutionary Cells involvement in the Entebbe hijacking. Mossad planned and helped with the execution of the hostage rescue operation carried out against the Columbian FARC a year ago. You've got the puzzling fact that the current Prime Minister of Israel, Benjamin Netanyahu, was warned not to get off his airplane on the day of the London bombings in July 2005. Somehow Israeli intelligence knew beforehand presumably via its network of informants and spies inside the British Muslim terror network.

Chris Williams

I would be very suprised if Mossad paid much attention to the headbanger right in the UK, in the way of active operations. I'd imagine that they spend the time and people rather closer to home. Israel is a small country with limited resources. The fact that SB infiltrated the NF is an entire red herring. Both. are. based. in. the. same. country.

Can you give me the source for the Netanyahu story, because if true it's a sign of breathtaking stupidity on the part of the Israelis "We knew but we didn't tell you". Or perhaps he was an extra 30 minutes in makeup?

The depressing thing about today's incarnation of the BNP (Ethnic homelands! Hate Muslims!) is that it's entirely compatible with Zionism. That's why I was actively gobsmacked that Griffin is still accusing his enemies on the right of being manipulated by them. Were I him I've have blamed it on the PC state, the better to distance myself from anti-semitism preparatory to hoovering up the votes of the islamophobic middle classes. OTOH, were I him I'd . . . oh, never mind.

Splintered Sunrise

It's unusual for Griffin, given that he's been positioning the BNP as vociferously pro-Israel in recent years and the party's Concepts and Discipline manual basically tells anyone interested in that Protocols of Zion stuff to bugger off to the NF. I guess old habits die hard.

Where the arm's length theory has credence is that the EDL is full of the sort of people who used to be in the BNP, but don't fit well with the modern besuited BNP. And today's Griffin Jugend are a depressingly weedy bunch in the round.

Nice work getting Leonard in there...

Fellow Traveller

Associated Press originally carried the story about Netanyahu. Here's an AntiWar follow up piece about the controversy surrounding it with links to a later German report quoting Mossad chief Meir Dagan as confirming the advance warning.

The initial AP story claimed Special Branch warned the Israeli's; the later, Israeli source cites their own intelligence.

I also recalled the details from memory incorrectly - Netanyahu did make it off the plane and to London but didn't attend the scheduled conference because of the warning. I confused this incident with the one where the Israeli General didn't get off the plane at Heathrow because of the danger of getting served with an International arrest warrant.

Fellow Traveller

Oh and BTW: I mentioned the Special Branch NF infiltration merely to establish that British far right groups had government agents inside their central committees - confirmed by the testimony given in the TV documentary by actual police officers involved. Just to get around any immediate scoffing skepticism about the mere idea that such state infiltration could take place.

The development of international terrorist connections between Palestinian groups and the far left I mentioned to show how Mossad became concerned with the activities of groups outside the Middle East given their participation in hijackings and assassinations. RAF members travelled to Yemen where the PFLP trained them in its camps during the early 70s. The Israelis from then onward would've wanted to monitor, track and quite possibly acquire assets inside foreign groups allied to the Palestinian cause. You've also got Israel's commitment to defending Jews anywhere in the world from persecution at the hands of anti-Semites and those affiliated with them. Plus their ongoing search for renegade Nazis such as Eichmann - kidnapped and rendered out of Argentina by a Mossad unit in May 1960.

I love your comment about Israel only being a little country without the resources to engage in such operations. Hilarious.

Phil

Stahlhelm? Not really. If we were seeing ex-squaddies joining the EDL en masse in search of a ruck with Johnny A-rab, then I'd be worried. But that's not happening & I really doubt it will. Apart from anything else, if you look at the Freikorps - or the squadri, or the Croix de Feu - you're looking at veterans of wars in defence of the national territory; even the League of Empire Loyalists had been fighting to defend the, well, clue's in the name. Being in a professional army fighting a war of aggression thousands of miles away from home is going to have a big effect, but I don't think it leaves many people muttering about stabs in the back and itching for a rematch.

jamie

Fair enough: I was being slack. What I wanted to define was a nationalist ideas community, though given the number of ex soldiers there are going to be who've gone through Iraq and Afghanistan and are being told that while they were abroad fighting for her maj, the muslim fifth column was undermining our civilisation, I wouldnl't write off the stab in the back idea. It seems to be the basic way in which much of the Right have chosen to resolve the contradiction of having a nominally leftwing government give them so much of what they want.

Splintered Sunrise

As in the Tory response to the Afghan debacle, which is not to question the adventure but to loudly demand helicopters - see the Sun on a daily basis for much more of this. It's possible you could have an awful lot of disgruntled ex-squaddies buying into a narrative that, while they were off fighting a war in Afghanistan with no trousers or socks, teh Mooslims back home were sticking two fingers up to them, which is all the fault of the multi-culti leftie government.

Richard Littlejohn says that's what's happening, and we know he doesn't make stuff up.

Chris Williams

I'm sure that Mossad are globally engaged in all sorts of stuff: I need convincing that they can be bothered to infiltrate, _themselves_, minor far right groups in the UK (or in other Western European countries). I imagine that the London Mossad staffers have regular briefings from those bits of five and SB that _are_ doing this.

I've more time for the idea that Mossad are infiltrating UK jihadists, or at least getting intelligence on them through contacts with Arab jihadists that they've got infiltrated. Because these are the people who might attack (indeed, have at least once tried to attack) Israel. And doubtless they got data from the ultraleft/PFLP lashup back in the day.

But, FT, your version of reality sounds like 'Mossad as Brixmis' or 'Mossad as Gladio', and that I cannot believe. They are doubtless morally _capable_ of doing this, and have the operational resources to do it in at least one Euro country at a time (ask Vanunu...) but I rather think that they are only making a habit of it in their near abroad. I'd bet a tenner that their internal phonebook has about five times as many names in the Middle East section than in any other, and that Europe's is probably fourth in size behind the Maghreb and Central Asia.

I think that there's a point beyond which 'suspicion of Israel capabilities' moves uncomfortably close to 'Zionists are active everywhere', and I don't think that there's any evidence that moving beyond this point is reasonable. Spend your fear and suspicion on five and SB instead: they live here.

Alex

Israel is a small country with limited resources.

They have limited resources. Everyone has limited resources. Otherwise we'd be in the land of Cockaigne, up the big rock candy mountain. You have to choose.

Netanyahu did make it off the plane and to London but didn't attend the scheduled conference because of the warning.

I can't imagine how someone might not have got to a meeting in London on the 7th of July, 2005, around 0900. Search me, guv. Note that I was on the tube and then on a bus on my way to work that morning.


Also. the Raimondo argument (all of whose links don't go anywhere - did they ever? how many of his readers speak German?) is that he was warned six minutes before the explosion. The first explosion? Eh. But what kind of intelligence network would provide a warning six minutes ahead on something like this? Not great performance - they would have had to have someone among the bombers themselves, but not to have had the info earlier, which doesn't make any kind of sense.

Richard J

I've more time for the idea that Mossad are infiltrating UK jihadists, or at least getting intelligence on them through contacts with Arab jihadists that they've got infiltrated.

It's not just that, I think - London has a lot of Arab political exiles (both banned oppositions, and those in the tent temporarily out of favour with the current leadership) - it strikes me as prudent for Mossad to keep an idea on those who might well be in power next door soon...

dsquared

It seems pretty clear from the links that this "Netanyahu was warned" story just refers to the period after the attacks took place, but before it was public knowledge that they were bombings. All that's happened here is that the dreaded Mossads were quicker than lots of people (including me; I had actually gone to a meeting that morning and recall arguing the toss with a policeman trying to stop me from entering Liverpool Street station) to hear the "electrical power spike" story and think "no, that's bollocks".

With regard to "infiltration" of jihadis based in Londonistan, what's to infiltrate? As set out in about a dozen books by now, nearly all of the prominent ones are double agents of one kind or another, the issue is just where they stand on the spectrum of double agents. I don't believe that Mossad or anyone else is particularly well infiltrated into the funny leaderless cells that keep springing up though.

And conducting agent-provocateur operations on foreign soil against minority political tendencies that spend most of their time on anti-Muslim politics and have no foreign policy influence ... I am just not seeing this. Doesn't mean it's totally impossible, as intelligence agencies have vanity projects and wastes of money like every other public body, but I would guess that Operation EDL would have a very very hard time at the annual budget round.

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